Out of Patients EP403: Constellations and Cancer: A Storytelling Rebellion with Lisa Shufro
I’ve been chasing Lisa Shufro for almost a decade to come on Out of Patients. Why? Because she sees the healthcare-industrial complex for what it is—and has the guts, brains, and receipts to call it out with elegance and precision.
Lisa isn’t just a storyteller. She’s a story surgeon. A musician-turned-media-strategist who’s coached everyone from biotech CEOs to Surgeon Generals on how to stop talking at people and actually say something worth hearing.
We met back in my Stupid Cancer days when she was curating TEDMed. She was the quiet force behind getting non-theater nerds—scientists, researchers, data wonks—to sound human on stage. Her work? It still echoes through how I think about this show, this industry, and what it means to say something real.
We talked about a lot. How music helps you hear data. Why storytelling isn't about persuasion—it’s about connection. What Richard Simmons taught a room full of Harvard MDs. Why telling your story isn’t the same as storytelling. And how AI might be more like a violin bow than a Terminator.
Lisa also reminded me that science and emotion aren’t mutually exclusive. That structure matters. That who you're talking to is more important than what you're trying to say. And that sometimes the best way to tell your story… is to start from the middle.
Producer
Matthew Zachary invented healthcare podcasting before podcasting was a thing. In 2007, fresh off building Stupid Cancer, he grabbed a mic, launched The Stupid Cancer Show, and started broadcasting patient stories on internet talk radio when everyone else was still writing blogs.
19 years and 2000+ episodes later, Out of Patients is still the most unfiltered healthcare show anywhere.
Matthew does not do softball interviews. Brain cancer at 21 taught him that time is finite and bullshit is expensive. He gets guests to say things they would never tell Congress. CEOs admit what is broken. Patients name what actually hurts. Scientists explain what industry does not want you to know. The conversations other shows will not touch because of sponsor concerns or political correctness.
What makes him different: he has been on both sides of the mic. Featured in documentaries. Keynoted hundreds of conferences. Published in The Hill. Now marching into Washington with a national patient constituency behind him.
But he has also been the guy puking from radiation, fighting insurance denials, and watching friends die from paperwork.
That dual perspective creates interviews you will not hear anywhere else. He knows which questions make power squirm because he has asked them from hospital beds and boardrooms both.
No pre-approved questions. No PR handlers. No seven-minute segments. Just real conversations with people brave enough to tell the truth about American healthcare.
Still the show where whistleblowers go first. Still the show … Read More
Out of Patients EP456: Fitz Happens: The Marvelous Fitz Koehler
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