Out of Patients with Matthew Zachary
Out of Patients with Matthew Zachary
Matthew Zachary is the healthcare policy love child of Jon Stewart, Howard Stern, Thomas Paine, Ralph Nader, and Jerry Seinfeld. He has 19 years of receipts to prove it. Editorially independent. Answerable to no one. What started as The Stupid Cancer Show in 2007 became Out of Patients. The first online health podcast in America, predating the medium itself. Zachary survived brain cancer at 21, built the young adult cancer movement from scratch, and spent two decades channeling patient rage into something the system never saw coming. Now he is marching into Washington. Out of Patients goes where the comfortable shows will not. Politics. Healthcare policy. Economics. Institutional accountability. Consumer protection. The forces shaping what 330 million Americans can access, afford, and survive. Battle-scarred patients. Exhausted caregivers. Rare insiders brave enough to name what is killing us. And the occasional elected official about to find out what an organized patient constituency actually looks like. This is the show that started the conversation America is still not ready to finish.
May 4, 2026

Faith, Fraud, and Finding Himself: Ben Unger

Faith, Fraud, and Finding Himself: Ben Unger

In a wooded campground cabin in the early 2000s, 19 year old Ben Unger stood in the doorway and watched 20 naked men form a circle around a crying teenager. A counselor held up two tangerines and shouted, “These are your balls.” The exercise claimed to cure same sex attraction by forcing young men to “reclaim” their masculinity from overbearing mothers. Phones had been confiscated. Parents had paid thousands of dollars. Religion supplied the script. Pseudoscience supplied the props.

Ben had grown up in an Orthodox Jewish community in Brooklyn and later studied in Israel to become a rabbi. When he admitted he felt attracted to men, rabbis told him to eat 7 figs a day, immerse in a ritual bath 5 times daily, or marry a woman and trust that “if there’s friction, it works.” At 19, he entered conversion therapy through an organization called Jews Offering New Alternatives to Homosexuality, known as JONAH. He left with depression, religious trauma, and 6 months of silence toward the mother he had been taught to blame.

Years later, represented by the Southern Poverty Law Center, Ben helped sue JONAH for consumer fraud in a landmark New Jersey case. The argument centered on evidence, not theology. Sexual orientation cannot be changed. The jury deliberated for 3 hours and ruled against the organization. The verdict helped reshape how states regulate conversion therapy and protect minors from psychological harm disguised as treatment.

Today, Ben runs Buff Personal Training in New York City, a gym built on autonomy, mental health, and self respect. His story traces the arc from institutional control to self authorship. The conversation examines religion, LGBTQ rights, conversion therapy, consumer protection law, and the lasting cost of being told your identity is a disorder.

RELATED LINKS

Ben Unger on LinkedIn

Ben Unger on Instagram

BUF Personal Training

Southern Poverty Law Center

JONAH

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Out of Patients EP442: Faith, Fraud, and Finding Himself: Ben Unger

Ben Unger grew up Orthodox in Brooklyn and trained in Israel to become a rabbi. At 19 he told his community he was attracted to men. Their prescription: ritual baths, marriage to a woman, and this gem from his therapist. "If there's friction, it wor…